Anne Bogel [00:00:00] Does that sound right?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:00:02] Oof! I feel like you're attacking me, and I don't appreciate it, Anne.

Anne Bogel [00:00:07] No, no, no. We are on the same team trying to figure out what's happening here.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:00:10] Same team. You are so 1,000% right.

Anne Bogel [00:00:18] Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.

I am really excited about today's guest who came to us via our guest submissions page. That's at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/guest. I loved what she wrote in and told us about and thought so many of you would find what she's looking for in her reading life incredibly relatable. You're going to love today's conversation.

But first, I want to say it's summertime. The Summer Reading Guide is out. Go get your copy if you haven't. That's at modernmrsdarcy.com/srg. But we are here for you all summer long with timely episodes and good books galore. My family of six started the month at the beach where you know I read a ton. I can't wait to recommend those reads to the right reader. And I'm sharing a ton of those beach reads in this month's edition of Quick Lit, which has been a modern Mrs. Darcy tradition for ten years now on my blog. Those posts go up on the 15th of every month. Go check it out this week at modernmrsdarcy.com.

Now for our new conversation. Effie Alofoje-Carr grew up loving everything from the classics to thrillers and bestsellers. But in her early 20s, like so many of us do, she started feeling the pressure to read for work and self-improvement. As a Michigan-based mom and wife juggling a consulting career and a business, she appreciates how these types of books support her professional growth. But she's ready to get back to reading strictly for the fun of it. And specifically, she wants to seek out the fun and whimsy she found in her books when she was a younger reader. I'm excited to chat with Effie about how her reading life has evolved and to talk about ways to create the type of reading experience she's craving right now. Let's get to it.

Effie, welcome to the show.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:02:23] Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Anne Bogel [00:02:26] Oh, the pleasure is mine. I can't wait to talk books with you. Thank you so much for sending in a submission. Tell our listeners a little bit about what you told us about who you are, where you are in the world.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:02:37] Absolutely. Thank you for asking that, too, because I am someone who lives in the Mitten State. I'm from Michigan. I live in a college town. My hometown is Detroit, Michigan. So shout out to the 313. Let's see. A little bit about me. I work in public health by day. I am doing this foray into entrepreneurship by night. I am on the local radio. I like to shop. Where is the mall generation? Where did you guys go? And I like hanging out with my friends. I'm an extrovert. I like to go to concerts. I like to go to conferences. I like traveling. I like opportunities to network and connect with people. And I love snacks.

Anne Bogel [00:03:22] Okay. There's two things I need to hear more about. They are the local radio and the snacks.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:03:28] Yes. So last year I was in a transitional period and was pursuing joy and decided to see what opportunity held for me. And I became an on-air radio personality. So I now work in radio. It has been so fun. It's not something that I share with people. They're finding it out because they hear my voice on the radio and they're like, "Oh my gosh." They're sending me a DM and they're calling like, "Is this you?" It's me. I'm on a radio show. It's our urban radio station where I live. I'm having a lot of fun with it. It's been awesome.

Anne Bogel [00:04:09] I'm so glad. When you were building up that story, like about a year ago I started this new venture, Effie, I wasn't sure if it was going to be about the radio or the snacks.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:04:18] Oh. Oh, no, that snack story has started in childhood, unfortunately.

Anne Bogel [00:04:26] No, fortunately. So what are the best snacks? Because you told us in your submission you were committed to eating the best snacks possible. What does that mean to you?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:04:35] It means that unfortunately for me and my waistline, I am following all of the snack blogs, so I for sure know when there's a new cereal flavor coming out. I know when there's a new flavor of cracker coming, a new McFlurry flavor. I just love snacks.

So something about me is I'm not good for sitting down and eating full meals throughout the day. I love a great dinner, but throughout the day I like to snack. And I'm now, you know, trying to be wiser about that. A lot of my snacks are now fruits and veggies. Trying to be conscious of my body. But I love a good snack. I love, you know, like fun-flavored Eminem's. I love Cheez-Its. I love trail mix. Like just anything that you can think of. I like snacks that you can find in other countries. Aah, so delicious.

Anne Bogel [00:05:22] Yes. And you know what goes great with a good snack?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:05:25] Ooh.

Anne Bogel [00:05:26] I mean, so many options. There's no wrong answer to that. But I mean, this is What Should I Read Next?. So we're going to say a good book.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:05:32] I love it.

Anne Bogel [00:05:33] A good book. Reading snacks are a real thing.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:05:35] Reading snacks are a real thing.

Anne Bogel [00:05:37] I mean, you can have snacks and make your fingers too messy so you can turn the pages. But I've learned that in a pinch, you can just pop that Kindle screen with your nose and you can still have like Cheeto dust all over your fingers, which is just purely an example. Effie, I don't know if you're a Cheetos girl. I am not a Cheetos girl. But there are plenty of other snacks that will make my fingers messy when I'm reading.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:05:55] I grew up enjoying flaming hot Cheetos.

Anne Bogel [00:05:59] When I buy those, my kids say, "Who went to the grocery? I thought it was you, Mom." Because every once in a while I will. Effie, tell us about your reading life. What is the role of reading in your life right now?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:06:12] Well, I don't know if you're excited like I'm excited, but Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret is coming to theaters very soon.

Anne Bogel [00:06:20] Oh, my gosh. I mean, that was my childhood. Yes, I'm ready.

Effie Alofoje-Carr Throughout childhood that book was pivotal to me. I just am so excited. I grew up reading the classics, so I read The Chronicles of Narnia, Little Women, all of the Roald Dahl books, right? You know, reading was very, very, very special to me when I was younger. I see a lot of that actually in my child. He has been immersed in reading since about the first or second grade, reading chapter books early. I was the same way. In high school I graduated some more of the spicier things, like written by like Eric Jerome Dickey, Zane. I started reading a lot of James Patterson. So reading was really a huge thing for me to do for pleasure. I was reading great and then I went to college, dun dun dun.

Anne Bogel [00:07:11] Oh, this is a common tale. Tell us yours.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:07:15] Well, I was enjoying reading in high school as an escape. When I got to college, it became "You have to be an adult and read Grown-Up Books about time management and, you know, getting your life together and being a grown-up." So I really switched to reading more about personal development. And all of a sudden, the Along Came a Spider type books went out the window.

Anne Bogel [00:07:40] Okay, so that was then. What has happened since that momentous time?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:07:45] Well, what's happened since is I still feel guilty about reading for pleasure. I have so many unread books on my nightstand. I have a sprawling bookcase or two, I'm not going to even confirm or deny, of books, some read, some partially read, some unread. I have a ton of Audible credits that, you know, kind of need to be used. I love my Kindle. I have a regular Kindle Fire. I have a Kindle Oasis. I use Hoopla, I use Overdrive, I use Libby.

I have so many books on my Google Drive. The Z-Library was a huge thing for a while, and so I have so many books from Z-Library. I have a ton of overdue library books and it's actually disgusting how overdue they are. And every time I get back in their good graces, they comfort me at the library, and they're like, "Hey, we're librarians, we do the same thing. It's okay." And then I do the same thing all over again." And I'm like, "What is wrong with me as a person?"

Anne Bogel [00:08:45] So how are you feeling about all that?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:08:47] It feels overwhelming. I have an Alexa timer set every day to read for 10 minutes. Sometimes I ignore it, sometimes I do it.

Anne Bogel [00:08:57] So, Effie, I want to read you something and see how it strikes you. This is a quote. "My reading life is terrible these days." Those are your words. Is that how you're feeling like right now in this moment in time? Because some time has passed since you wrote those.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:09:13] It's true. So I think the depth of that feeling comes from the lack of consistency. So because I'm so hit or miss with my reading goals of reading daily, of reading something that will kind of move the needle forward in my life, even if that needle is in a joy or pleasure or just relaxation, I think because I'm missing the mark in that way, it makes me feel pretty bad.

Anne Bogel [00:09:41] You're missing the mark of finding joy and relaxation?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:09:44] I am, in all areas, truly.

Anne Bogel [00:09:47] Oh, okay, that sounds tough. So we're going to explore something today. I'm not sure if we need to just gently consider adapting our goals or if some strategies to help you gain that consistency would be most beneficial. Either one would work. But I really hope that we can move you to a place of feeling better than terrible about the state of your reading life.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:10:17] Well, I would love that. And I obviously trust the work that you do. So I'm excited to see what you have in mind.

Anne Bogel [00:10:25] Well, I'm excited to hear where the conversation takes us. Effie, I'd love to hear what you chose. Tell me about the first book you love.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:10:34] So the first book I love is called Pretty Good Advice is by Leslie Blodgett. I love this book so much. Leslie is just... She's bright. She is vibrant. She is a beauty industry person. And I love all things beauty. I love hearing her story of success that is kind of mixed in with, you know, funny things, failure. She just is so personable.

If you don't know who Leslie Blodgett is, she was the CEO of bareMinerals and she talks about her life, her childhood, her family, and how she built bareMinerals basically from the ground up by going through QVC. And I just love seeing her journey about who she is in, you know, the more present day. She's really funny and I think her advice is great.

Anne Bogel [00:11:32] Pretty Good Advice. I didn't know she was the CEO of bareMinerals. I've seen that book around. I have not read it. That's so interesting.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:11:38] It's a quick read. It's a fun read. Like, the pages are bright. It's just really easy to get through. They're just really quick quips. It moves quickly. And I think that's another thing that I really like about the book.

Anne Bogel [00:11:49] I think that says a lot about your reading life, that this is a business book that you chose for personal development that you've just called a fun read.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:11:55] Correct. And the fact that those two things come together I think is really important to me.

Anne Bogel [00:12:00] Yeah. So you do find reading about these topics fun. And also I'm noticing that she's an accomplished businesswoman, and yet the tone in her writing is very relatable. It feels conversational and it sounds like that's something you enjoy. Is it wrong to say that it feels like you're talking with a friend, even though you're reading about a book from somebody who's done some things?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:12:21] Anne, I'm really not surprised that you completely, totally get what I'm saying. That is exactly it. The conversational tone, the fact that I feel like I'm talking to an old friend in my living room makes all the difference.

Anne Bogel [00:12:37] Not just a friend, but an old friend. So one who really gets you, Effie.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:12:40] Absolutely.

Anne Bogel [00:12:42] But at the same time, she's really confident in what she's saying.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:12:45] She is.

Anne Bogel [00:12:47] Okay. Tell me about the second book you love.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:12:49] So the second book I love, honestly, is really because I hear it in her voice. So I read The Last Black Unicorn by Tiffany Haddish. Tiffany Haddish is an accomplished actor who has had her share of hardships. So, you know, of course, that is very relatable to a lot of people.

She's a comedian, so automatically it brought the book up to a level of expectation that it would be funny, and it did deliver for me personally. I think the reviews are mixed. The jury might be out. But I so enjoyed the book because it truly sounded like her on stage in the pages of a book. And I really needed that refreshing. I really needed to laugh at some of her real-life... I'm assuming her real-life personal stories. Not sure if they're enhanced for the book. Kind of like you would if you're doing a comedy special, right? But assuming she's telling the truth, she tells the truth in a very funny way. And that's important to me.

Anne Bogel [00:13:46] This is one that I listen to myself on audiobook, but this was my first exposure to Tiffany Haddish. I hadn't seen her show. I didn't know. So maybe that's an uncommon introduction. But I've heard some people say like, she's a comedian, why is she talking about so much serious stuff? But I thought that's what she did really well. Like to bring humor and levity and insight to some just hilarious stories, you know, that are funny and easy, but something about really hard things that she still brings that same tone to. And what I hear you saying is, like, it all worked for you.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:14:15] Absolutely. So once again, kind of like the previous book, right? Hearing her story, being able to see, you know, some aspects of my life in her story especially, but just hearing how she got from point A to point B was really meaningful. And of course, I think she drops gems in her book as well, just like Leslie Blodgett did. And she tells her story while teaching us and making us laugh at the same time. And I love that.

Anne Bogel [00:14:45] I love that it makes you happy. And also having read that, I'm just noting as we explore what you may want to read next, as we're thinking about content and stories, what you're comfortable with, knowing you love this book tells me a lot. There were some stories you told where I was like, "Oh, I didn't know we were going to go there." Some of this content is pretty spicy, readers, just so you know. But that tells me a lot about what you are drawn to and enjoy and are comfortable with. So thank you for that.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:15:10] It's true. I appreciate when people are honest and raw and real. And once again, funny matters to me a lot, I guess.

Anne Bogel [00:15:19] And Effie, what did you choose for your third favorite?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:15:21] So the third favorite is an older book to me. It was past college when I read it. So, you know, I was already in, you know, well into adulthood. But it's called The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson. And this book is very meaningful to me. There's a book that's similar to it that I read, and I still go back to this book in favor of it, because it was my first introduction to this principle that literally everything you do is moving you in one direction or another.

There's really no way that we're ever really being static. You know, like we're either making decisions that move us in a more positive direction or a direction that we might not want to go in. So I really appreciated this book because it's kind of jarring in a way. The slight edge principle really teaches you to think about how important and pivotal your daily choices are.

It is one of the reasons why I set the 10 minutes of a day reading a book that I was going to kind of move the direction in my life that I want to see because your daily choices really do matter. So this book outlines a lot of different scenarios about how people made just one slight change and got better health goals or better financial goals and someone else who did nothing and still ended up in a worse position even though they did nothing. I hope that made sense.

Anne Bogel [00:16:52] It really does. And I'm noticing how this is the second time you've said it means a lot to me because it's really stuck with me through the years.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:16:59] It has.

Anne Bogel [00:17:01] Effie, I'm going to jump ahead just a little bit to when you said like, Ah, my reading, life is in shambles, it needs to be resurrected. I want to read for fun again. I am putting words in your mouth, but they're your own words. And what you want is whimsy and fun. And so I messaged you and said, "Effie, I believe you. I hear you." Two of these three books are business books. Tell me a little more about whimsy and fun mean to you. And you were gracious enough to share three more books you love. Would you tell our audience what those are?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:17:33] So I don't know that the three more books that I loved were whimsy and fun. One of them was a romance book because, okay, what girl doesn't get down with a good romance book, right? So the one book that I read, and I read this book within the last month, it was just a really quick random, you know, Kindle read. It was called Make a Scene Move by Mimi Grace. I really liked the book because it was so fun in terms of like watching two characters come together and fall in love. I love that.

It was the right level of spice for me in terms of comfortability. You know, getting hot and heavy in books is not a big deal to me, but there's a such thing for me personally as maybe a little too far. This was right within my comfort level, and it was just really enjoyable. Because just like you love a romcom on screen for the same reasons you love a romance novel, right? Some people do. I do. So that was a really fun book for me.

The next two books that I love, though, they're still kind of... you know, they don't really fit the definition of whimsy and fun, right? So How to Keep House While Drowning is an amazing book. It's by KC Davis. I have both versions of this book. I have two different physical copies, her first print and then her second run.

The book is incredible because it is such a loving, empathetic way to wrap around a human who might be struggling with the traditional ways of how we keep up our home and do what KC calls care tasks. Care tasks are the things like, you know, doing the dishes, taking out the trash. Cleaning basically. And there are people who, you know, fit the definition of chronically ill or, you know, like maybe they've got other things going on with their life, they could be depressed, all of those types of things, and they are just not able to keep up with their care tasks. And KC lovingly wraps her arms and shows some strategies on how you can modify those tasks to still get them done to care for your home, care for your body, care for your family. I love that book so much.

And then the last one was How Are You, Really? by Jenna Kutcher. Again, not really a fun or whimsy book so to say, but Jenna is actually a lot of fun, honestly. Jenna is a party honestly. I love her dearly. I love her work. Listening to her speak has been pivotal. Thumbing through the pages of her book, I could also again hear her voice, and I've heard myself say that over and over. So it seems like that's really important to me that I feel that type of connection leaping off of the page.

So in How Are You, Really?, I just loved how real she was about her own life and how you can kind of like dig into your own life to uncover truths that you might have been burying. Because, listen, in this day and age, it is harder and harder to find peace and passion. Especially after COVID, things have been really chaotic for a lot of people. You're trying to like, balance your life, your goals, etc.. And she just really refreshed me and helped me think about some of the things that I was doing in my life to kind of rein it in and feel like I was more in control. So I really enjoyed that book.

But it doesn't still really represent fun and whimsy. So you ask, What does that mean to me? I think I want to get lost in a world of not having to think about things that relate to business, personal development, supporting my family. You know, like I don't want to read anything that is brain heavy, so I'm likely not leaning towards maybe another memoir or any personal development or self-help book. I think I just need something where I can get lost in the characters' lives and enjoy and hear something funny but wholesome and go from there. When I say wholesome, this does not negate spice.

Anne Bogel [00:21:41] Something that feels good for the soul and good for humanity?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:21:44] That's better.

Anne Bogel [00:21:47] Awesome. I love it. Okay, we're going to come back to that. Effie, tell me about a reading experience that was unsatisfying for you.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:21:56] So there are books that are just, you know... there are books that I feel like I should like and I don't. One of the books that I feel guilty for not loving was called Their Eyes Were Watching God. It is by Zora Neale Hurston, who was one of the greats. This book is a staple. I'm not saying that you shouldn't read it. I'm just saying that it answers the question that you just asked me. It just felt unsatisfying and I don't know why. I might need to read it again in a different season and come to terms with it, but it just didn't do it for me.

Anne Bogel [00:22:32] Yeah. At what point in your life did you read this?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:22:35] So this was still around reading for pleasure, high school, college time.

Anne Bogel [00:22:41] So you were younger then, less life experience.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:22:43] I was.

Anne Bogel [00:22:44] Did you read this on your own or like in a classroom setting?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:22:47] So I read it both ways. So because I was such a voracious reader in that time period, I read it on my own. And then I also had to read it for class.

Anne Bogel [00:22:57] Which, depending on your classroom experience, reading a book that is challenging... That book is challenging, especially for a lot of young readers, in part because it's written in so much dialect. And that can be hard to get the hang of reading those words on the page. Listeners, if that sounds tricky, the audiobook is a really good tip for any book that's written with that kind of dialect.

But if you're reading that with a teacher you love, who can walk you through it and help you understand it, that can be a real gift. But we all know that's not the universal classroom experience when we have a teacher walking us through a novel that feels like a stretch for us at the time. So I don't know which it was for you, but I appreciate your commitment to honesty with yourself, especially about what worked and what didn't.

And I also really love to hear what you're saying about how like that was a long time ago and you were a different person, a different reader then. And if you feel inclined to give Zora Neale Hurston another try, you can do that. You can do that. That's a gift of the reading life. You can always come back.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:24:01] You're right. I find so much value in reading a book from a different time period and reading it again. I have done that. I did that with The Coldest Winter Ever by Sister Souljah. Read it in that time period, read it again within the last year and took something different out of it both times. So I definitely will give it another chance. But that is far from now because we kind of get caught up on all of these books that I have in my bookshelf that I have not read yet.

Anne Bogel [00:24:31] Do we?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:24:33] Maybe.

Anne Bogel [00:24:34] Tell me more about that.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:24:35] I have so many books that I have either read part of the way they are not finished or books that I have not even opened at all. And so I feel the need to catch up... I'll never catch up. But I feel the need to catch up. And so I'm really wanting to maybe make some progress in that space before I go back to a book that I did not love.

Anne Bogel [00:25:01] So you would find that really satisfying?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:25:03] I would.

Anne Bogel [00:25:05] All right. Is there stuff on your shelf that you feel like it's calling your name that you're excited to get to?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:25:11] Oh, boy, there's so many books on this shelf that thinking about that is overwhelming. I have to read Atomic Habits. I actually have planned to read that with a friend in May. But again, there's no fun and whimsy in that. That is, you know, self-help, personal development. Let's go. You know? I have The Self-Care Solution on my bookshelf as well. I do want to delve better into caring for myself, and so I probably will pick that up sooner than later. There's just so many books and so little time.

Anne Bogel [00:25:48] So many books, so little time, and you got to figure out how you want to spend it. Effie, what are you looking for in your reading life right now?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:25:57] Well, I really would like a book that captures me quickly. So a book that I thought would do that because everybody said it was so great, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo. But do you think I've gotten farther enough to get to the point where everyone is saying it's so great? No, I'm only a few pages in, right? So I just need to be swept up quick enough in the book that I'd commit to finishing it.

Anne Bogel [00:26:22] So you gave that Taylor Jenkins Reid novel a try. Effie, what else have you been reading lately?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:26:26] Oh, boy, I have been reading so much. So I am currently reading 1-2-3 Magic, which is a book on parenting.

Anne Bogel [00:26:37] That takes me back. Yes.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:26:38] Oh, boy. So I'm reading that. I am reading some books for work. One of the books that I'm reading for work is called Difficult Conversations. I'm just trying to [support?] my leadership game and my leadership skills. So I've got that going on.

I've got a ton of Audible credits. Oh, boy. I have used a lot of them. But then there are some that are just still lingering. I have books that I want to listen to, but I kind of get nervous about using Audible because I kind of have to rewind a lot. So even though I have these books, I just I'm like, "Oh, what's going to happen if I miss, like 5 or 10 minutes because I get distracted? But if I talk to you about what's in my Audible library that's not listened to, I have books like Designing Your Work Life, Cozy Minimalist Home, and Project 333. I've got some books by Cloud And Townsend.

And I guess for those of you who don't know, they talk a lot about boundaries. I have physical copies of those books as well. I've got books about speaking, about being a mom, about emotionally healthy spirituality. I've got so many books in my Audible library, but I just am nervous about truly delving into Audible because I feel like I will lose so much of the book.

Anne Bogel [00:28:02] Okay. I am noting that. You also said that you would love to get a little more consistency in your reading life. Would you tell me a little more about that?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:28:11] I would. So ironically, there's another book that I have read partially, and there are many reasons, we could get into why, but it's called Smart But Scattered, and it's definitely a way that I describe myself. So I have lots of books that I've read part of the way through, definitely have a nightstand filled with books that I've started, read a few pages of. But for some reason, if I'm just not, you know, into it really quickly, we just kind of keep going. So I'm hoping to just be able to get into a book, read through it quickly. If there are strategies that I need to employ, then great.

Actually, this might be helpful information for you and maybe other listeners out there. I stumbled upon reading a book while listening to it at the same time and whoa, game changer for me personally. It's not always financially feasible to buy a Kindle copy and an Audible copy or, you know, have a way to listen while you're reading through the book and it doesn't always match up. But when it does, it's a game changer. So I don't know if there's more to that that we need to explore.

Anne Bogel [00:29:18] Effie, that's amazing. You have, through your own experimentation, hit on the strategy that works so well for so many readers who find themselves easily distracted when they're reading. It's sometimes referred to as active listening, where you're turning more of your senses toward the text than you would if you were just listening or just reading on the page. What made you think to try that?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:29:41] It was an accident a few years ago. There was a book and I found it on YouTube and the words were on the screen and I was reading the words while listening to the book. And I found out that I retained so much more of that information. I also found out around that same time a few years ago that you can speed up things, which I know you can do that in Audible now, but you can get up the time of your listening, which is super helpful for me personally. And so, yeah, it was just a happy accident.

Anne Bogel [00:30:13] Well, I'm so glad that you found that that works for you. And I hear you on the budget. I hope your library system is fantastic and can at least help you out some on that front.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:30:21] Well, remember we've got to return all these books that are way overdue.

Anne Bogel [00:30:30] It sounds like you've gotten back in your librarian's good graces before. Not that you're out of them now. I don't mean to imply that. You're putting the books to good use.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:30:38] It's true.

Anne Bogel [00:30:39] You can take them back.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:30:40] I can.

Anne Bogel [00:30:40] ...eventually. Mm-hmm.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:30:41] Eventually.

Anne Bogel [00:30:43] Eventually. Now, tell me about your reading goals and how you're feeling like you're kind of falling down on them.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:30:49] Absolutely. So I have a daily timer. 10 minutes read, goes off every night at 9:30 p.m., and yeah, we ignore that timer quite regularly. I would love to sit down every day, even if I make some time for myself in the morning, even though I'm not a morning person. So scratch that. That's not even feasible. But I would love to add a night routine where I wind down with a book, you know, I kind of get cozy, try to minimize screens in my life. So maybe it's not the Kindle or maybe it is. You can change the brightness. Right? But I would like to just settle down and read daily as a way to make myself feel good, feel comfortable, feel like I'm experiencing life in a way that I create and not just kind of reacting to the things around me.

Anne Bogel [00:31:47] Yes, that is a worthy goal. So sometimes your timer goes off and you read, sometimes you don't read. Are you able to identify what the circumstances are for those times when you're like, Yes, where's my book?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:32:02] Absolutely. So I think it has a lot to do with that smart but scattered issue, right, where oftentimes I'm chasing tails. I'm trying to get caught up from something. I'm often exhausted by the end of the day. I'm trying to, you know, like get my, in the words of KC Davis, care task done, you know, kind of shut down the house. I'm probably still working or I'm choosing to connect with my husband. I do a lot of doom scrolling. Please don't judge me, Anne. I do a lot of doom scrolling. Instagram and TikTok take more time than I care to admit. And oftentimes it's just easier to choose that.

Anne Bogel [00:32:38] All right. First of all, I would never judge. We're all humans who have this technology that's messing with our brains and like I'm no stranger to doom scrolling. I don't do it as often as I used to. But it happens. I'm a person with a phone. It happens. And I'm also noticing that when you're feeling overwhelmed, when that timer goes off, it's not an invitation to take a break, it feels like one more thing to do that is unwelcome right now. Does that sound right?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:33:04] Oof! I feel like you're attacking me and I don't appreciate it, Anne.

Anne Bogel [00:33:07] No, no, no. We are on the same team trying to figure out what's happening here.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:33:12] Same team. You are so 1,000% right.

Anne Bogel [00:33:14] And I don't want you to feel attacked by your timer. That's not a good thing.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:33:17] Oh, my gosh. But I do, though. And you are so right. I love the way that you worded that. It does not feel like an invitation to settle in. It feels like a chore that I am not meeting the mark. It is a reminder of the ways that I'm not the person that I aspire to be, that I'm not trying to be best by furthering my post-college education and being a lifelong learner and etc., etc. It doesn't feel like an invitation, it feels like a chore.

Anne Bogel [00:33:46] And we want it to feel like an invitation. Also, Effie, I feel like sometimes our best character traits can work against us in many aspects of life. And that sometimes means the reading life. I can hear that you have really high expectations and standards for yourself, which I imagine serves you well in many aspects of your life, but makes you sometimes maybe not the most gracious taskmaster when it comes to managing your books you're reading.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:34:17] Oh, Anne, you're so brilliant. I'm so grateful for this conversation with you because you're really helping me realize some things that I just didn't think about. And you're so right.

Anne Bogel [00:34:28] Well, I'm so glad I could put all my latent perfectionistic tendencies and all those years of therapy to work. Thank you. So I think having some insight here and really giving yourself the freedom to think like, "Oh, what's wrong with me? I'm failing." But to think like, Oh, like when might I welcome an invitation to read? Do I need to move the time of day? Can I try something else? Can I just change the way I think about it? Do I just need some Gold Star stickers? Because, I mean, they are kind of magical. They're metallic. They're adorable. They line up really nicely on a sheet of paper or the wall or the refrigerator. These are all real things.

And also I'm thinking like, let's think about what's working for you. It may sound like this is in a totally different lane talking about the consistency with your timer on one hand and then over on the other hand, we have your active reading where you're listening to an audiobook and you're reading something on the page at the same time. But I wonder if you knew like, yes, I can slip right into the story or yes, like I have a clear set of behaviors I can slip right into in a way that feels really comfortable and structured and safe, if that might help.

So you have this daily reading goal for 10 minutes. So that's a really good thing. I wonder, and this is just an idea, it might feel like a terrible fit, but for many readers who feel like they innately have a short attention span or have a short attention span due to COVID, instead of feeling like they need to sit down and read like 30 minutes of a book, they'll read a few pages of all three books on their nightstand. It makes them feel like they're getting something done. They're making progress, they're moving, they can see it. It feels satisfying. And it's also bite size. But those bites add up to a whole snack. You like snacks, Effie.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:36:17] I love snacks, Anne. And also remember one of the three books that I told you I loved so much, The Slight Edge principle. Oh, boy.

Anne Bogel [00:36:26] And apply it here.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:36:28] I know. Also, though, why does that feel so like three... It feels so against the rules, Anne. Three books. I already feel bad that I'm reading multiple books at once and not finishing them, but three pages of three books at the same time every night, I'm totally going to do it.

Anne Bogel [00:36:47] It might feel horrible or it might feel like, Oh, this is fun and snappy.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:36:53] I'm going to try it.

Anne Bogel [00:36:54] Try and see.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:36:54] If anything, it's a great conversation starter. I'm reading three books at the same time and I read three pages of three different books. Hey, actually, is there an app that just gives you the notes or the bones of good books? I think I saw something like that.

Anne Bogel [00:37:08] I believe it, but I'm not sure that would be satisfying to you. So start with the three pages first of the three books.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:37:13] I love it. I'm going to do it.

Anne Bogel [00:37:15] Do it. Do it. Do it. All right. Effie, we are looking for books that meet you where you are—and you like to read personal development books for fun. Like this is a place you're comfortable in—and at the same time you also want to read for whimsy and fun, and you want books that stick with you. I'm thinking of all the titles we talked about, so let's recap them real quick.

You loved Pretty Good Advice by Leslie Blodgett. That was very much in the business lane, as was the Slight Edge by Jeff Olson. The memoir The Last Black Unicorn by comedian Tiffany Haddish really worked for you. Several of these books felt like you were sitting down to have a conversation with an old friend on the living room sofa. So we're just going to remember that.

You loved the Romance Make a Scene by Mimi Grace, KC Davis' practical nonfiction, How to Keep House While Drowning, which is also so gracious and friendly, was a big hit for you. And How Are You Really? by Jenna Kutcher. You've used the words real and raw several times. And you've also mentioned quite a few books that are like waiting for you next. So let's take all these and see what we can find for you.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:38:27] I love it.

Anne Bogel [00:38:30] Effie, I love that you want whimsy and fun. And also, I'm wondering if it'll shock your system.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:38:37] Oh, my gosh.

Anne Bogel [00:38:40] Not that you can't enjoy a good book, but I kind of want to put some books out there that feel like... Well here. Let's start with the place that feels really obvious to me.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:38:49] Okay.

Anne Bogel [00:38:49] Okay. And I'm thinking about the works of Phoebe Robinson. Have you read anything by her?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:38:53] I have never heard of Phoebe Robinson.

Anne Bogel [00:38:56] Really? Well, I will be quite honest. The reason Phoebe Robinson came to mind is because, like Tiffany Haddish, she is another popular comedian right now. But I'm a big nerd, and I know about her from her memoirs, not from her shows. She was co-star of Two Dope Queens on HBO, which I've never seen, but that is something that I know about Phoebe Robinson. I know so many listeners are just groaning right now, "Oh, Anne." I guess it is what it is. And we're committed to being honest. Right, Effie?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:39:25] Right. We are.

Anne Bogel [00:39:26] But she has written several books. You Can't Touch My Hair, in 2016, was her first one. Her most recent one I think would be a good place to start. I mean, you could start anywhere. But her most recent one came out in 2021, so, like middle of the pandemic, Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:39:42] In your outside clothes. Which is literally something I would say and do say. Because don't do it.

Anne Bogel [00:39:50] Well, that's what she would say. That's what she's going to tell you in the book. But she starts with a story about... she starts with this story about Mad Men that, of course, is not at all about the show Mad Men. But when she's writing, it feels like she is talking to you, her old friend, just like so engaging, so conversational, so telling it like it is.

I've only read her in print, but I think she would be amazing on audio because her voice just leaps off the page. Like you feel like, Yes, I am in the middle of this relatable, friendly, confident, like, Ooh, I can't wait to hear what happens next conversation. And it just feels like she's being real and raw. Like, polished. Like her prose is amazing, but just real and raw about what's happening in her life.

So in this book, she talks about living with her boyfriend during the pandemic and the like... sometimes awesome and sometimes really rocky journey that was. She talks about the stress of traveling as a Black woman. She talks about how self-care can go really, really wrong, which it sounds like may appeal to you.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:40:53] It would.

Anne Bogel [00:40:53] And she also talks about launching her publishing imprint, Tiny Reparations Books, which has become one of my favorites. I understand that you might not be a publishing nerd like that, but she talks about how this opportunity came her way and how tough and also satisfying it was. It's really interesting what she gets into about her work. It goes directions that you might not expect.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:41:18] Well, I love it. Already love it. And now that you're talking about her, I remember when that book came out in 2016 that I do know who you're talking about, and I'm very, very excited because, yes, the whole publishing thing, I definitely want to go down that lane. Definitely cannot wait to read this book.

Anne Bogel [00:41:37] I'm so glad to hear it. Effie and readers, I love the works of Tiny Reparations. Like I know I've talked a lot about Gone Like Yesterday that just came out earlier this year. And actually her first nonfiction book in this imprint just came out in, I think, April. It's by the Instagram influencer Chrissy King, and it's called the Body Liberation Project. And I just thought it was so good. She has a lot to say about body positivity and neutrality and racism and being a person in the world and snacks. Like she talks about all these things. I think it's amazing.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:42:09] Added to the list. This is perfect.

Anne Bogel [00:42:14] I'm glad to hear it.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:42:15] And I did really enjoy The Body Is Not an Apology, so I just wonder if it's along the same lines of Sonya Renee Taylor's work. So added to the list.

Anne Bogel [00:42:25] I think those books have a lot to say to each other. Okay. I wonder if you want to read something like Real Self-care by Pooja Lakshmin. You've got a self-care book on your radar. She talks about how there's a real tyranny to like faux self-care. That self-care isn't just like one more thing to do. It's not like if you're stressed out, it's because you're not taking good enough care of yourself. Like real self-care starts with things like boundaries and how you talk to yourself and using the power of tending yourself for good. You've got a lot like that on your radar. And I think we want to go in a more lighthearted direction.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:43:05] I definitely need to go in a lighthearted direction, for sure.

Anne Bogel [00:43:10] Okay. How about a couple of romance novels?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:43:12] Yes, please. Because Mimi Grace and... oh, my gosh. I just enjoyed her so much. Yes.

Anne Bogel [00:43:21] All right. Have you read anything by Alyssa Cole?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:43:24] I have not.

Anne Bogel [00:43:26] She is a romance novelist who is prolific. One of her most popular series is called Reluctant Royals. The one I want to recommend to you is the second book in this series. But you can totally jump in here. It's fine. You're not going to miss key developments by skipping book one. Though you might want to go read them all, and that's fine. These do get a little hot and heavy.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:43:52] Okay. We like it.

Anne Bogel [00:43:55] Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. You said that's a place that you enjoy going. So in this book, we meet a New York City socialite whose name is Portia. And Portia has long been compared to her sister. She doesn't like it, she wants to be her own woman. So she has embarked on this project called Project New Portia. And I think you will enjoy reading about Project New Portia.

But because of Portia's work, she decides she is going to go to Scotland, to Edinburgh to apprentice with a grumpy Scottish sword maker whose name is Tavish. So she's off to get her fresh start in Scotland, but things go very, very badly, including like when she arrives on the scene there in the middle of like a staged fight. But she doesn't understand that stage and she jumps in and interrupts it. There might be a can of mace in her hand. I'm trying to remember exactly how she sends things careening in directions they did not mean to go, but it's like the opposite of a Meet Cute.

But then she accidentally discovers that not only is her grumpy swordmaker boss extremely handsome, but he's also the secret son of a duke. I love how Alyssa Cole has these premises that like this is not the real world. Like this is not. You can just relax, enjoy yourself. This is escape. And yet the novels feel very realistic in their relationships. And she really sells you on the premise. Like, why couldn't he be a duke? You're like, This is fine. But there's so much just banter and chemistry, there’s some laugh-out-loud moments. Really I think you’re going to love the dynamics between Tav and Portia. And there's also really great ADHD rap in these pages for readers to whom that appeals, contemporary romance, beautiful friendship. Lots of fun moments. I think this could be fun for you.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:45:41] I am welcoming the fun, as you know, so I cannot wait to dive into this.

Anne Bogel [00:45:51] I'm glad to hear it. Effie, for you, I also like the work of Kristina Forest. Kristina Forest started as a YA author. The first book I read by her is I Want to Be Where You Are, which is just a sweet romance about two teenagers who go on a road trip. And yes, they're dealing with problems. But is it just like so darling at the same time? I think it is.

But her newest book that just came out in I believe February is her first adult novel, and it's called The Neighbor Favor. This is her debut adult romance, and it's an epistolary story that is told... not solely, not start to finish. But it begins with a bunch of letters. Or more precisely, they are anonymous emails. And Kristina said she was inspired by a classic romance by Laura Kinsale, for you serious romance readers who know all your Laura Kinsale.

So at the center of the story, we have Lily. She's a shy reader. She loves books. She works at a publishing house. She is desperate for a promotion. And because of that, she decides to email the author of her favorite fantasy novel. His name is Nick Brown, but his pen name is NR Strickland called Strick by his friends. And long ago, when he was just out of college, he published this book called The Elves of Ceradon that Lily loves. It's her favorite book.

Strick was aspiring to be the Black George R.R. Martin, and hasn't written anything like that since. So she writes her favorite fantasy author, and it's just from his contact page thinking nothing's going to happen. But he writes her back and they strike up a correspondence that becomes a friendship. And she starts to wonder if it could possibly be something more but then he ghosts her. Dun dun dun.

[00:47:41] So flash forward months, and what should happen but Nick moves into her apartment building in New York City. It's actually in Union Square, if you really like to visualize where you are, if you know that area. And Lilly desperately needs a date, do a family wedding because her family is all over her to, you know, be like her sisters and meet a nice guy and settle down. They offer to help her and she's like, "No, no, no. I'll get this date myself." And she decides to ask her new handsome neighbor.

And you'll quickly discover he knows it's her, she doesn't know it's him. And tension, angst, banter, all the things. This is so sweet and earnest and adorable. But this is also her adult debut, and it is really racy for a minute. It gets hot and heavy just for one scene, which you like. Not every listener does. Now, you know, you can make the judgment. But it's a charming story set in the book world about characters you just really want things to work out for them.

And that can be a really nice feeling to have as a reader. It can be a really comforting feeling to have as a reader, especially when you're reading romance and you know you're not going to be left disappointed and angry at the end of the day. You know how it's going to end, you're not quite sure how you're going to get there. How does that sound?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:49:01] I think that is very intriguing. I'm really excited about that. I love it.

Anne Bogel [00:49:09] Well, I love that you love it. Effie, okay, we talked about a whole lot of titles today. But as for what you might read next, what do you think? Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes, the essays by Phoebe Robinson, A Duke by Default by Alyssa Cole, that's the Reluctant Royal Series, book two, or The Neighbor Favor by Kristina Forest. Effie, what sounds good?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:49:34] Oh, boy. I am excited about all three and I think for the sake of really diving into some fun, we're going to go with The Neighbor Favor first.

Anne Bogel [00:49:49] That makes me so happy. That feels right based on our conversation. I hope it turns out to be a good fit.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:49:55] I think it will.

Anne Bogel [00:49:57] I'm so glad. Effie, I enjoyed our conversation so much. Thank you for talking books with me today.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:50:03] Anne, this has been so lovely. I'm so excited that you took the time to help me figure out what I should read next.

Anne Bogel [00:50:13] Oh, the pleasure's mine. Anytime.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:50:16] Thank you.

Anne Bogel [00:50:21] Effie, I just realized that I totally forgot to tell you about a book that I thought could be a total miss, but it also might satisfy that whimsy itch you've been having.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:50:34] Okay.

Anne Bogel [00:50:35] I'm just gonna tell you about it. It's called This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch. And it is by Tabitha Carvan. Is this a book you know?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:50:44] No, it is not a book I know.

Anne Bogel [00:50:47] Okay, let me tell you the subtitle, because that begins to explain a lot. It is the joy of loving something, anything like your life depends on it. So for Tabitha Carvan, that thing is Benedict Cumberbatch. And in this book, which isn't... it's not memoir. I mean, this is narrative nonfiction with a lot of personal stories mixed in. But it's not a book about Benedict Cumberbatch. But it is because it's very much about her love for Benedict Cumberbatch and how she was obsessed about Benedict Cumberbatch and how she's read everything the internet has ever hosted about Benedict Cumberbatch.

And in the process, she talks about some really smart things that you said you don't want a book that demands a lot of you, that makes you think. And this book would totally make you think. But I think you would enjoy doing it. Like, chapter one is a chapter about mothers, and she talks about like, why don't women get to have fun without people criticizing what we like, especially mothers. Like, mothers can't love things for themselves. Like, can a guy love mountain bikes? Sure. But like her loving Benedict Cumberbatch? Like, that's just weird. And she takes offense to this.

And she talks about obsessions and fear and labels and guilt. Like, is she entitled to indulge this obsession? It's not harming anybody. But like people tell her it's a waste of time. There's a chapter about hiding where she says, like, Well, maybe she doesn't want to talk about her love of Benedict Cumberbatch because people will think it's funky or inappropriate or bizarre or just wrong, like they just won't understand. So maybe she just won't talk about it. But I think by now, you know where she's going with this. Like, No. Like, let's talk about what matters.

And she talks about, as I recall, I think I can remember her talking about going to the mall with her friends and loving the things she loves, and how there seems to be this impulse to suppress that in young women to like, No, you can't just love what you love. You have to like the right things or it's not cool to do that or Oh, don't tell people. And she's not having any of it. And she's talking about like, No, we need to love the things we love. It's good and right and important. And also just like, Oh, it's so happy making. Why would we not want that? So I present that to you as an option. What do you think?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:53:03] I think that it is an amazing option, especially because a few years ago I started doing something that I believe was to bring joy to my life and to encourage other people to bring joy to their lives. And I called it Favorite Things Friday.

Anne Bogel [00:53:20] Oh my gosh.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:53:20] And I share the things that I was in love with because of the... It sounds like the exact reasons why this book exists. And I encourage other people to delve into the things that they love, too. And so I have to read this book. I have to.

Anne Bogel [00:53:34] Oh, my gosh. Okay. So do we need to ask you again? Phoebe Robinson, Alyssa Cole, Kristina Forest or Benedict Cumberbatch?

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:53:43] Oh, no. Oh, it's gotten infinitely harder. All of the above.

Anne Bogel [00:53:53] I love it. We'll leave it there. Okay, thank you for humoring my last minute Oh, no, we can't forget a good book recommendation. I'm glad we didn't leave it any longer.

Effie Alofoje-Carr [00:54:03] I'm so glad we didn't. I was just tickled from the title. I love it. I'm going to read everything that you suggested, and I'm excited about utilizing the strategy that you have taught me, which is three pages of everything, and just enjoy it.

Anne Bogel [00:54:25] Well, I'm so excited to hear how this goes. Please report back. And also, I love that the title brought you Joy. That feels fitting and I hope that this conversation helps bring you more joy into your reading life.

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Effie, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Connect with Effie on Instagram @inspiredbyeffie, and find that full list of titles we talked about at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com. Make sure you're following along in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And help others find our show by leaving a review or giving a star to your favorite episode. Reviews are our love language as podcasters. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell other listeners what you love about our show.

If you don't already get our newsletter, sign up now. It's free and you'll always know what's up. That is at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/newsletter.

Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by Will Bogel, Holly Wielkoszewski, and Studio D Podcast Productions. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.